10:03 < ripe899> It's always good morning for IPv6!
10:03 < masterF00> this morning is only good if we shut down IPv4 now but .... ok i'm still dreaming i guess
10:04 < ripe854> only when mobile operators offerVvi
10:05 < vasco_RIPENCC> Vaibhav Bajpai has begun the presentation "Measuring Effectiveness of Happy Eyeballs".
10:05 < ripe854> aieee..
10:05 < ripe854> comic sans used in non-ironic way..
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10:08 < masterF00> Well. IPv6 is still a funny thing! :)
10:09 < ripe854> hello becha :0
10:09 < becha-web> hello :)
10:09 < becha-web> very early good morning to you all :)
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10:16 < vasco_RIPENCC> Vaibhav Bajpai has asked for questions.
10:21 < vasco_RIPENCC> The presentation has ended.
10:21 < vasco_RIPENCC> Vesna Manojlovic has begun the presentation "IPv6 RIPEness Fifth Star".
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10:29 < justa> and re
10:31 < mirjam_ripencc> For more info on Implementing the Fifth Star, see recent article on RIPE Labs: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/emileaben/ipv6-ripeness-implementing-the-5th-star
10:32 < vasco_RIPENCC> Vesna Manojlovic has asked for questions.
10:33 < ripe446> no we are not doing that atm.
10:35 < hph> Yes - slowly raise the bar!
10:36 < vasco_RIPENCC> The presentation has ended.
10:36 < shane> It makes comparison across time tricky, but the point is to encourage adoption more than to measure adoption, so I agree.
10:36 < shane> Raise the bar. :)
10:36 < vasco_RIPENCC> The IPv6 Measurements Panel has begun, with participants: George Michaelson (APNIC), Andrew Yourtchenko (Cisco), Steve Nash (Arbor Networks), Heidi Kivekäs (FICORA) and Martin Levy (Hurricane Electric). Moderated by Marco Hogewoning.
10:37 < ripe446> emile here: shane: we can still compare to old data with the 'new' threshold
10:37 < shane> Ah, of course.
10:38 < shane> Charts can say "current distribution base on star-value in 2013". :-P
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10:39 < ripe065> and most not for any price) ;)
10:39 < ripe065> urgh, this chat sucks
10:39 < ripe065> in Finland, no residential ISP even provides IPv6 by def.
10:39 < ripe065> so funny to see someone from there on panel.
10:40 < shane> Well, maybe she'll have something to say to that?
10:40 < ripe065> hopefully, but official line is 'we're ahead in
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10:40 < ripe065> inserting
10:40 < shane> Of course. In Finland all children are above average? :)
10:40 < ripe065> exactly
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10:51 < ripe967> could you please paste the URL Andrew has said ?
10:51 < ripe967> see no URRL on remote webcast...
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10:54 < shane> http://6lab.cisco.com/stats/
10:55 < ripe967> thanks, shane
10:55 < shane> We're here to help. :)
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11:08 < ripe065> oddly enough, one operator got /20 in 2004 and 'no plans'
11:08 < ripe065> for end-user ipv6
11:09 < shane> It is quite possible that an enthusiastic engineer got the allocation, but that doesn't translate easily into roll-out.
11:09 < ripe065> yeah, but they _do_ advertise AS's and whatever
11:09 < ripe065> with probably roughly zero real users
11:10 < ripe065> so e.g. on 6lab AS graph, they're ipv6-enabled
11:10 < shane> Maybe just for bittorrent at their office? :-P
11:10 < ripe065> possibly, but funnily enough all operators do the same here ;)
11:12 < shane> "If the phone's not ringing, it ain't broke."
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11:13 < Natha> In the courses, I notice a lot of ISPs are cooking in the kitchen, there is a lot going on behind the scenes
11:13 < Natha> but all under NDAs etc
11:14 < Natha> deciding on which transition mechanisms, strategy planning, IPv4 depletion plans
11:15 < Geoff> I've heard "there is so much going on behind the scenes but I cann't talk about it" for the past 10 years
11:15 < Geoff> after a few years that kind of conversation tends to be uninteresting
11:15 < Geoff> results matter
11:16 < Geoff> ONLY results matter
11:16 < Natha> true, but from the questions I NOW see at the courses, there are decissions being made, so I still have some hope ;)
11:16 < Natha> that is different from 2 years ago
11:17 < shane> We worked with Comcast for many years before they had any public IPv6... it does take time.
11:17 < vasco_RIPENCC> Any questions for the panel?
11:21 < shane> Does Andrew live in the USA? He keeps using car analogies. ;)
11:22 < hph> WHile every other ISP in Norway were discussing how to iplement v6 - one provider simply did the work and launched http://www.get.no/kundeservice?q=Ipv6
11:22 < Natha> Shane: Should Vasco take that to the mic? ;)
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11:23 < shane> No, no. I'll get the details from Andrew over beer, in the traditional manner.
11:26 < shane> It took Marco years to get xs4all to become IPv6 enabled for the customers in Holland.
11:26 < shane> I'm not excusing people for deferring implementation too long, but it is non-trivial for many environments.
11:26 < Geoff> The common observation is that is most cases sa far the basic internal case to embark on an Ipv6 service has been evangalism, rather than the bottom line
11:27 < hph> True - maybe its like insurance - you do not really need it until its too late?
11:27 < shane> Geoff - that seems to be the case.
11:27 < Geoff> i.e. its the engineer with passion that has persuaded the company to embark on the service, rather than the conventional drivers of opportunities, competitiveness or risk mitigatiopn
11:27 < Geoff> and until that changes we should all be worried
11:27 < Natha> true, but now the v4 market is taking off, v6 becomes a business case
11:28 < Geoff> We though in Asia that exhautiosn in 2011 would drive Ipv6
11:28 < Geoff> we were wrong
11:28 < Geoff> its not as simple as that
11:28 < ripe065> ficora has 'ipv6 task force' with last doc from 2010.. :p
11:28 < Natha> but is there not more happening "behind the scenes"?
11:28 < shane> Well, there is also exhaustion and exhaustion. :)
11:29 < shane> A lot of network operators do have IPv4 in their back pockets.
11:29 < Natha> yes, when I ask in the courses: For how long? The average is 1-2 years
11:30 < Geoff> We can do CGNs using full 5-tuple mapping that will cram thousand of users behind a single IPv4 address
11:30 < Natha> Is that actually being done? :/
11:30 < Geoff> so the question of "how long will your stock last" actually depends on the other question: What CGN technology do you plan to use
11:30 < Geoff> yes, its being done
11:30 < Natha> well, exactly!
11:31 < Geoff> it is amazingly efficient
11:31 < ripe065> CGNs are happening in few countries I think
11:31 < vasco_RIPENCC> The IPv6 Measurements Panel has ended.
11:31 < ripe065> I wish they didn't, but they're known evil and well marketed
11:31 < murb> ripe065: + mobile operators nearly everywhere.
11:32 < shane> In NL, I have heard that a big cable ISP is switching from fixed IPv4 to fixed IPv6 + CGN.
11:32 < Natha> I heard the same
11:32 < ripe065> IPv6+CGN is kinda ok
11:32 < ripe065> but just pure CGN, bleh
11:32 < shane> UPC, IIRC.
11:32 < ripe065> and that's happening somewhere too ;)
11:32 < Natha> yep
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11:33 < vasco_RIPENCC> This session has now ended.
