These are unedited transcripts and may contain errors.

Closing plenary

Friday, 17th of May 2013 at 11 a.m.:

SHANE KERR: Hello. If we could start taking our seats, we are going to start the last session of the day here, please. We are going to start off this session just making a quick announcement about the elections for the Programme Committee. So we had our voting, we have closed the voting and we have our results here.

Benno: Just double?checking. Yes, wave winner, so about 65 people did vote, it could be better but okay, we are happy with all the votes. And the winner is Mike Hughes. So congratulations, Mike.


Benno: Well, also, of course, I want to thank all the other candidates and nominees, it was a great set of people and I hand over the mic to Shane.

SHANE KERR: All right. For the first presentation here, we are going to get a WCIT take away. So, Olaf, are you ready to rock and roll here?

OLAF KOLKMAN: I am with NLnet Labs, and I was a member of the Dutch delegation to WCIT as a technical visor. This is sort of my interpretations and take?aways which I present here on personal title, I want to say that explicitly.


You probably all heard of it. It was the world conference around the international telecom regulations. But to give you a little bit of context, this is sort of the history of WCIT. WCIT is about those telecom regulations and the last revision that have was in 1988. This is sort of a time?line that shows that the development of the technology on the lower half of the page, the development of the governance structures around that technology that govern that structure, and the growth of the Internet and its institution somewhere in the middle.

And what you can see there is that after the ITR were in place the Internet grew and all the institutions that have to do with Internet governance came into existence.

So, that is sort of the context in which this conference took place.

Modernising, in essence, a treaty that basically governed the payment models of telecommunications, which were, of course, radically upset by the introduction of the Internet.

The ITRs themselves, this is a copy of the original '88 one, is a fairly small document, with ten articles. And this was being reviewed. Now, how did that work, how did that work? In essence, there were a lot of preparatory meetings from all the regions that the ?? in which the ITU has organised its regional presence, so to speak, CEPT is the European one, APT is the Asian Pacific one and so there is a bunch of regions in which preparations were made and proposals were handed to the conference, ending up in a huge pile of paper, I would say. Multiple times the 15 pages or 20 pages that the original article was.

Once in the conference, the plenary, in essence, need to converge to a final text. The way that is done is that all the text on which there is consensus is just kept as is, and everything that is, over which there is no consensus is put within square brackets. So that was the end of a laptop. Sorry, wrong session.

So, the discussions were really about the square brackets, and this is where negotiation took place. Now, you have to know that this type of conference is always supposed to happen with consensus, and there are only two possible outcomes: Success or great success.

At the moment, that this conference takes place the positions are sort of ingrained. The people who get to the conference have their instructions from their ?? were the national governments and in essence it's a negotiation game. The way that I have learned to deal with consensus in this community and the technical community, is completely different; that is not about negotiation. The way that we work here is trying to solve a problem and understand each other's differences. Negotiation is a completely different thing. And that is, you know, that is fairly obvious in the process. And what happens essentially is that negotiations are taking place and if the negotiations don't work out, things are split up in smaller groups and smaller groups and in the end, there are break out sessions with, say, four representatives of the regions who come back and that is the consensus proposal. It is a very interesting and tense way of working, that is clearly different from the way that we work in this community.

And I am saying that in the fairly neutral fashion, by the way, I am not making a judgement call. There are different ways of getting to a decision.

So, the outcome, there was outcome, there was success, this was a successful meeting because that is one of the two possible outcomes. And the final acts have been published. You can download them from the URL below.

Now, one of the on sets of the, of the conference was that the conference was set not to be about Internet. And that was an important way of engaging for many of the people ?? of the nations that went to the conference. This should not be about Internet and should not be about, for instance, content. If you look at the articles in this document at face value, then the question is: Can you maintain a straight face and say that this whole thing is not about the Internet? Well, if you look at the letter of the document, article by article, maybe you can make the case that this is not, not about the Internet.

But if you take the whole thing and you look at the ?? at the whole context, then it's very hard to maintain that this is a treaty that is not about the Internet.

By the way, I want to point out that the Internet protocol journal, which was laying around in the hallway, has a report, a summary report written by Robert Petterton and Chip Sharp who were both at the conference which gives a much more detailed analysis of what happened. So if you want to know the details, this is actually good article to get everything.

But anyway, so, what were the issues? Well, the issues were about the rights of individuals versus the rights of countries and that is always a very big tussle, because in different regions and different cultures people look at these rights and perspectives in different ways.

There was a fairly large group, for instance, of nations that wanted to make a reference to the ?? to the human rights declaration, the Netherlands was part of that. Another group of people felt very strongly that the treaty should contain language that recognised the right of access to international communication services. And that was inspired by the problem that some nations, like Cuba and Sudan, do not have access to certain credit card services or PayPal because of boycotts in the US and elsewhere, so not really a telecommunication or Internet problem but definitely an inter?nation sort of tussle.

This is the type of language that was very hard negotiated and sort of ended in a de facto vote.

Content: Well, there are a couple of articles in there that are worrying. Article 5 A and 5 B were some of the critical pieces of the treaty. Specifically, article 5 B, which is essentially about spam, was a red line for many of the countries, because this was really about content, not about infrastructure, so to speak. Article 5 A is another thing to pay attention to; you know, what does this mean? What does harmonious development of international telecommunications services mean? How is harmonious translated? What does this really mean? Does this mean that this legitimises that you can track users from start of communication to end? So those are all questions that this treaty brings up.

Is this treaty about Internet? Well, part of the treaty were a bunch of resolutions, and one of the resolutions was an instruction to the ITU to foster an enabling environment for the greater growth of the Net. That was an Internet based resolution. A question is: Does this resolution make the ITU exclusive place for Internet governance? It's something to watch out for. What about the other fora, the IGF, and how binding is this type of resolution?

I could say that, in the end, the ?? although there is a resolution, because it was voted and ?? or there was a consensus about this resolution, the vote was not strictly about the resolution itself but about one article and so the resolution is there but many countries decided not to sign it. What does that mean in practice?

Well, in practice, it means that after a couple of years, and I don't know exactly time scales, this might become a binding document and it depends a little bit of what the plenipo decides for instance, whether this might become a binding document, and a great many nations, and this is a snapshot made in January, a great many nations have not signed a treaty, although the ?? all the nations in red.

Can you maintain a straight face and say this is a good thing for the Internet? Well, well, I don't think this is a good thing for the Internet. I don't think there are winners. The issue has been turned into a north/south ?? the issues have been spinned as north/south issues, they are about free versus control, about market versus regulation. There are a great many of technical things where I think we as a technical community can make a difference. And those issues are real. They were not solved. Now, it might not be the place ?? it might not be the case that that conference was the place where those problems to be solved, but it is definitely a place to have the conversation, and to listen to each other. And unfortunately, that didn't happen.

Personally, I think that spam, BotNet, DDoS attacks, that kind of thing, were the underlying aspects of what drove the agenda, and those issues are real and they are on the radar of governments that worry about them. I am not saying that the ITU and the ?? this type of treaty place is the only place where to deal with that, but it's definitely a place where you could say, you know, there is a public ?? there is a public interest in it and if we cannot solve these sort of problems mutually, then ill?informed regulators make decisions that we don't want.

What now? Well, there is a whole bunch of fallout of this. This week was the WTPF, and of course, the sort of shake?up that happens fed into this WTPF and there were reports earlier this week about what happened. The thing is, all these things feed into each other. What I have seen during WCIT is that there were a lot of people from our community that had the opportunity to be part of a national delegation and make a difference, informed the delegations about the technical underlying structures that and informed their decision?making. And I think that made a huge difference; the presence of RIPE, the presence of the other RIRs, the presence of ISOC, made a difference because those parties are the ears and eyes in the hallways. And having access to the people who make the decisions because frankly, it is the governments that make the decisions during a treaty ?? during a treaty conference, having the eyes and ears and having the ears from those decisions makers is very important.

I think ?? I think that it made a huge difference for technical community to be there, and that is one of my take aways, that trying to keep friendly with your regulator and trying to be constructive in the dialogue, is an incredibly important thing to engage, and that is something that, as a technologist, you in this hall can do.

So that is basically it. This is my take aways, these are some pictures, it was fun.

Thank you.

SHANE KERR: Thank you, Olaf. That was really interesting. Do we have any questions or comments? Surely we can't let such a talk go unanswered.

PATRIK FALSTROM: So, co?chair of the Cooperation Working Group. I was also in Dubai together with Olaf and I would like to thank you for the summary that matches also my view of what actually happened, and just to encourage more people, just like you, to work more with your governments and regulators and vice certificate have a, for the governments and regulators who happen to be here to work more with the technical community.

We saw that in the meeting of the Cooperation Working Group that we discovered here at the RIPE meeting a disconnect between the work that is done regarding trust services in among governments in the European Commission and the European Union, which of course is a subset the RIPE region but it's just one example of a disconnect between what is done there and what is done here, if I now use those terms and just the fact that I use those terms there and here, that is so wrong to me, because, for example, spam and other kind of things that you mentioned that they are worried about, we are also worried about them and I think that the problem is each one of regulation or cannot solve the problem if isolation. We do have to work together and I think we are moving in the right direction but there is so much more to do, and so once again, thank you very much, Olaf, for this snapshot of what actually happened. Thank you.

PAUL WILSON: From APNIC. Just a question: You didn't mention IGF at all, Olaf, you didn't talk about what is the ?? what is alternative to this system, this process that we are critiquing here, it's not coming up in this session, is it? IGF is a separate topic.


PAUL WILSON: I think it's really worth dwelling on that. The technical community is pretty well?known in the, in this entire sphere as, for our critical abilities. We are very good at saying no, this is no good, it doesn't work and doesn't represent us, whatever, pointing out the problems, but you know it's really important to look at what actually is the constructive alternative and that is the IGF, the IGF came out of WSIS and came out of this long inter?governmental process where, after four years, there was a recognition of the unique nature of the Internet in terms of decision?making and this whole idea of multi?stakeholder and definition Internet governance came out of it and the forum was set up as the place where that should happen so the IGF has got this global, this international mandate as the place for Internet governance to be discussed. And it's ?? so it really is ?? it's the place holder, it's the place that we should be supporting not just saying we don't like this but actually working out how to make the IGF work because it has to survive. If it doesn't, then where is this all going to converge? It's going to go back to the process that you have been talking about. And you know, it's something that I don't think we can afford to lose, but I don't think we can afford to take for for granted or sort of give token support to, either. I mean, we are very good in this community of being incredibly proud of the achievements of the Net, I mean we know how important it, and we can't boast about how important it is and then pretend that no one is going to question how it's being run or take notice of what we are doing here, and the IGP needs to be around for as long as there are Internet governance challenges and there will be for as long as the Internet turns up. I mean, for as long as it's growing and developing, which is a long time. And the support that the IGF needs is substantial but it's not huge; it's of the order of a few million dollars that, unfortunately, is really difficult to find and I kind of that I we need to take that seriously and partake in some sort of movement to actually get this thing into a stable state because it really does have a very important role to play. Coke /KOEUBG started off with "I have a question". (You).

Sorry, this sounds wrong because I wholeheartedly agree with you. That is why I have put ?? I put that same question on this slide: What about the IGF? Because that is a critical role in Internet governance and the point that I was trying to make with this presentation is we as a technical community have a responsibility in Internet governance and we need to be at the places where we can help it forward, that means that we have to participate either locally, informing our governments about the /SRUBG tours that exist, like the IGF, like the Cooperation Working Group, like our places where people meet, make them understand what multi?stakeholder really means, because at this moment multi?stakeholder seems to abword that everybody runs with and not everybody understands that multi?stakeholder is bottom up consensus and not top down voting after listening to everybody.

So, all those aspects, hook in together and I think that what you just said is sort of similar to what I just said: We, in this room, have a responsibility, technically, to address the problems that are real, sharing that information, letting people know that we take those problems seriously and also trying to work on positive solutions, together with the people who represent public interest.

I think we are in sync on that.

PAUL WILSON: The question I had was whether we were going to be talking about the IGF and that was a genuine question but I am attend by talking about it.

OLAF KOLKMAN: I am happy you brought it up. For me, this was a WCIT update so I looked specifically at WCIT because there was a lot of talk about WCIT prior to December and I wanted sort of to share my experience.


SHANE KERR: All right. Thank you, Olaf. Very nice.

Benno: So, the ??

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: I am from the RIPE NCC and a comment from a remote participant. Newry owe from Netnod, would like to say I would like to echo Paul's comments about Internet governance, the need for Internet governance cannot be ignored. We in the tech community need to think about what forms we support and are acceptable. Like Patrik pointed out we need to speak to governments as well civil society and the business community. The IGF as a forum we can do so in a constructive, open, transparent and equal fashion. If we don't want WCIT and SIMI.

Benno: Now we can continue with two lightning talks. I want to invite Jaap for the first one, apparently the sky is falling and all kind of disasters so listen carefully and maybe you have to start digging your bunker.

JAAP AKKERHUIS: Yes, the sky is falling, sun is exploding, so better duck. You will see if that if you read the press, I will try to ?? the guardian express: Mammoth sun spots are becoming trouble so, really dangerous to the earthly inhabitants. Really, pointing to the event which is 1859, that is completely ?? CNN has four ways how you can shut down the Internet and first one is space weather and other people say that after ?? that volume cane knows, torn aid doughs and other will happen after solar activities, it also influence which you can see on the headlines above.

Is your network still alive? And are you?

Well, yes, I guess so. I ask that because some weird things happened this week during the RIPE conference and it's all about space weather. This is quick sight trip, what is space weather, I just happen to know about something with it, I worked together withstand Ford solar centre and looking at disturbances in the at more fear ?? it tells you about what is happening on the sun and that is known as space weather monitors from Stanford. There is two version, analog and digital one used software defined radial.

You see here our radio astronomy department in, in LN Net Labs, on the right a little small thing here, that is mechanical backup data centre.

The sun is actually pretty boring, I made a picture of it because you never know in Ireland where you are going to see it or not.

And what you see, as well, is here there are some spots actually if you look closely. Aptly called sun spots and people didn't notice these things for a long time until they invented around 1600 and what people did as well, just count the stuff and you see some many of the things are last for 100 years. Sometime there was actually very little, also known as small ice age. But ?? anyway.

Sun spots. If you look at different way to the sun, you see the ?? this is the last in the current cycle, this is around 2000, the best we have is 25, these goes up and down and this is what we expect to see the maximum next year, which is less than what it was. And these are what we really measure, that is even less than we expect.

If you look at the magnetic view from the sun you will see it matches these little spots we saw there. And you can ?? you can look at hot and cold parts of the sun, and that matches the same, more interested are these little twirls here on the top which is actually clouds of ?? clouds and falling back again and on the other side there is stuff going out of the sun is also known as the solar wind and if you look at what is really happening, a lot of violet lights, you see this much more interesting stuff happening. And it gives nice pictures.

I won't go into the details.

Let's go back to the sun again. And you see here the sun, here is the earth, this is not on scale because we will be toast if it was. And the solar wind actually hits here, it's trying to hit the earth but it's magnetic field around it which defiance all this stuff going to ?? going and pushes on this side of the magnetic field and makes a long tail on the other side. And this is station A. If you try to move stuff around you will see that on the side but 2010 does hit completely the magnetic field is going to change and if you start magnets around you always have problems because it creates electricity and other weird stuff. And that is what actually we are going to happen later.

In this picture you see what happens when the explosions on the sun. The little spot here is Mercury passing along and here with the streams of winds, it happened in 2003, so doing minimum. And explosions were not really big. This is ?? this was made by space cart hanging between the sun and the earth.

Anyway, oops, that was a big ?? kind of blinded camera.

We have a way of classification of this stuff. We do it by X?rays which also happens during that time. C class, the ones we just saw, were low activity. Middle class is about slightly more and X class, it's getting exciting and. These are known as coronal mass ejection CME or sun flares so they are the same.

What does it do? Normally you have, this is about the level of X?rays which are around the ?? and what is the damage it can do? Well, the X?rays only, if you are one year on the moon you have got 2000 X?ray pictures. The ?? astronauts will be toasted by the X?rays. The magnetic storm actually causes a lot of damage and kills the eastern part of the electric ?? in the northern UK and we have the famous Carrington event.

That is where ?? that is where 1859 flare hits the earth within 19 hours. Normally takes a couple of days. You could see Aurora everywhere, in your newspaper in New York because there was no electricity at that time. This is before electricity.

And the Telegraph systems broke down and completely melted, part of the systems worked without batteries which was kind of cheap.

It took about 40 days but finally thought that it was actually came from the sun. Nobody knew what it was because nobody was measuring.

This week, we had the biggest explosions in years, it started Tuesday night, there was X 1.7, later followed by 2 .7 and 3 .7 and some ramblings after 24 hours and did you notice that? The network or whatever, you know? Did earthquakes and did your thought process get disrupted? I don't think so.

And here are the measurements you see, really close?up, in fact 1,000 of energy bursting into the earth.

If you see those headlines again, you know, remember, this is all about statistics. The sun is about 4 .7 billion years. We only have data for 400 years. We actually have two aphenomenon lease in the time, which just ?? so, yeah, your network is still probably alive. And this is all ?? this is actually the take away.

Don't really read the headlines, just be called and take the necessary standard stuff because if it really happens, I don't know what is going to happen.

I am prepared.

Benno: This time for one short question.

JAAP AKKERHUIS: You can talk hours about this.

Benno: If you want to talk about home?made antennas, we fill all our lunches talking about this stuff.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Martin Levy, Hurricane Electric. This is brilliant and known by some. Hands up anybody with a ham radio licence in the room here? If you don't hand up and you are on the network, just go get a ham radio licence and you will start to learn there is more to life than just what is on the wires. It's fun. Take care.

JAAP AKKERHUIS: Actually, that was why it was disturbed this week, the radio.

Benno: Thank you. The next speaker is Becca, I don't have her last name. She will talk about the Karma server, a new idea to create community consensus, so Becha, the floor is yours.

SPEAKER: This is me as a private person, nothing to do with NCC. So I would like to have the easier way to read mailing lists, because I am on too many mailing lists and mostly I do this tagging by asking people, hey, which of these thousand posts shall I read? Because I can't read them all. So I would like to be able to tag the message and explore them and share them with friends and one of the possible solutions is to have a Karma server.

So why? Well, this is ?? this would bring many, many more people to actually participate in the consensus building process. Because it's actually hard to teen all those posts if you can't even read them. So it would make the writing easier and the reading easier.

I don't have to tell this to you; you already know, but you know, I have to start from the background and I was doing this presentations in other, let's say, communities, to prove that the mailing lists are the consensus building tools and it's hard to contribute even just to say plus one. And these are all the communities where they are used, so if this idea would actually be implemented, all these mailing lists would have to change.

Why? Well, most of the people are actually just lurking there. The mailing lists are easy to subscribe, they are easy to post to and, still, not many people do it.

On the other hand, I would like to be able to rate the posts and actually share those ratings. I have this in my Thunderbird and it's insightful or interesting or to come back later to them but I can't find them any more after a few days or a few years. So I want to do all this in the e?mail client. I know that there are forums where I can go and do the/dot and stuff but that is not what I want. I want Address Policy Working Group and IETF mailing list to be tagable and to explore those tags.

So, what would have to change? A lot. So, I map clients and servers would have to change or somebody would have to write a special Karma server for collecting the tags or ratings, for distributing them and communicating with consisting I map servers or modifying ones. Here is how we brainstorm about it on another conference about alternative social media, and yeah, we had a hack on this but not many people showed up but now, I am asking you do you want to take part? How many of you would use this if it would exist? Okay. How many of you would want to actually write some code to actually make it happen? There you go. So there is a description of the project on this wick key. There is an get had you been directly, it's all set up for you, I am not a coder any more, I am a bringing people together who can make these things happen. So, yeah, start talking to each other, talk to me, we can create a mailing list but let's wait until it's a proper one where we can tag things. So, thank you very much for opportunity to share this idea here, and if there are any questions, or comments?

Benno: Any questions? Okay. I would like to thank Vesna.


And please find her in the hallway or e?mail.

We go on to the next plenary session, on the technical plenary by Angel. The floor is yours.

ANGEL BLAZQUEZ: I work for RIPE NCC. And I have been the technical coordinator of this meeting here in Dublin.

I would like to start by introducing the RIPE meeting technical team, probably you have seen some of these faces during this week and maybe also in past meetings and I want to thank each of them, they are a great team. Thank you very much, guys.

As most of you already know RIPE NCC is based in Amsterdam, but of course we had a meeting to organise here in Dublin. So what we did is we packed up all our stuff and we shipped it here. We have a total of 14 flight cases full of equipment that we brought here.

Just a weekend before RIPE 66 started we came here ourselves. And well, this is how Amsterdam looked like when we left, not the nicest weather ever, a little bit rainy and windy so we were hoping for nicer weather here in Dublin. And this is what we got. But it's not a problem because we actually had a lot to do. As you can see, this is where ?? this is the conference area just before ?? just when we got to the hotel. It looks quite different from the way it looks now so a lot of work to do.

So, we started working, setting up all the equipment. And now, I am going to explain some of the services we have provided during the meeting.

We start with the network. We have provided an up?link of course, so we can connect to the ?? some basic services such as DHCP, DNS, IRC. And of course a wi?fi network that you have been using all the time and it seems to have been performing quite good.

Talking about up?link, transit has been provided by our host Ireland's National Education and Research Network, fibre has been provided by Eircom and we got a lot of help from Brian Nisbet and Nick Hilliard, thank you very much for that.


So, this is how the network looks like. We have two routers here in the hotel and we are peering with HEAnet, one of the connections is active and one is just in case of problems with the primary connection.

Now we like to share with you some network statistics, both v4 and 6. Regarding v4, we were doing 15 megabits in traffic and 6 megabits out. We had two peaks of 100 and another one of 400 megabits, I will talk about the second bit later on. We were also doing quite some v6, forming bits in and one out, with a peak of 60 megabits in and 10 megabits out.

So now let's talk about the 600 megabits that you can see in the photograph. Well, not everything was perfect. We had a network hiccup, although I am not sure all of you noticed; maybe some of you, it lasted like 15 minutes, and this was Tuesday before lunchtime. This was because of misconfiguation in the other room, we were trying the web stream configuring for Wednesday, and we managed to push out 600 megabits which caused some issues.

Now, let's talk about the Wi?Fi network. We use Aerohive and I have to say so far we are very happy with them. This is the second time we used them. First time we used them in Amsterdam in RIPE 65. As you can see, we have deployed quite some access points. In the conference area we have around 40 access points and upstairs, which we also use for some meetings on the second floor, we have deployed some access points also.

As you can see here, the Wi?Fi network has been very busy. We got peaks of 600 associations, but as I said before, we are under the impression that Wi?Fi was performing very good. We got very good feedback from you.

In this slide you can see the Wi?Fi clients grouped by operating system and vendor. As you can see, we have many Apple devices in the network. We also have, of course, some android devices and Windows and Linux of course, and on the right you can see the devices by hardware type.

Now, I would like to talk about the presentation system over there. The presentation system supports quite some formats. And we have set it up in a way that actually shows between presentations various modes and I would also like to highlight the fact that we support remote presentations, this is in my opinion, very good feature because it gives the possibility to people that cannot attend to the RIPE meeting, maybe because they are just too busy or only interested in some parts of the meeting or they can just not afford coming here. This gives them the possibility to be part of all of this, just as if they were here, and it was also working very good.

Now, talking about the webcast. We provide Flash and RTSP. And our stream is accessible via v4 and 6 and we have improved the quality of the streaming.

We went from 320 to 720, so probably you have noticed that, now we get much better stream.

We also provided some other services. The info hub for instance in which our colleagues work in there can connect remotely to our offices in Amsterdam and they can look into some issues you have or some questions. We also have the registration desk of course, and also a terminal room. In the terminal room, you can use some of the equipment we provide, some laptops, and also a printer that you can use and you can of course go there with your own devices as if you were in your own office. It's a very quiet place where you can just get some things done.

And now, let's talk about what we call the coffee break TV. It's an idea that came from Randy Bush, I have to say, in RIPE 64 in Slovenia and we implemented for the first time in Amsterdam, RIPE 65. The idea behind it is you can see what is going on in the plenary or in the other room when you are outside just having some coffee chatting with someone so you don't have to sneak in or out, open doors, you can just decide when do you want to go in. Technically it is quite simple to implement, but it's also very ?? it has been very useful.

Now, we would like to introduce the web services team. They are responsible for RIPE 66 website. And this includes things like upload presentations script or some web ?? such as chat and some other things. And again, I have to say that they did a great job. Sometimes they work here physically, some others were back in Amsterdam working remotely and yes, thank you very much for the good work.


I also want to thank the AV team, my mate over there, Paul low, thank you.

And of course, the Stenography team.

MORE CLAPPING PLEASE and well! That is! Base! Basically everything from me, see you in Athens. RIPE 67.

SHANE KERR: Thank you very much.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Marco, speaking as co?chair of the IPv6 Working Group, I have an observation, a question and a comment. The observation is these things seem to get really big these days, you pointed out there are 600 associations simultaneously on the network. When do you expect to run out of IPv4 addresses?

By now we have quite some IPv4 addresses, we still have some to provide so that shouldn't be a problem for next meetings. Does that answer your question?

MARCO HOGEWONING: Yes, you are one of the many ?? I don't see a problem yet, that is quite common. For the comment, it got mentioned in our Working Group session on Wednesday and our Working Group participants expressed quite some interest in whether the NCC should be able to operate an IPv6 only SSID during the meetings, so please, let it be noted and I would like to forward that request to the tech team to see if you can manage to set up an IPv6 only network just as a test in parallel to the regular one.

ANGEL: Yes, sounds like a good thank you, thank you, Marco.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: David Freedman, Claranet. I actually wasn't going to say this because I didn't think it's relevant, since Shane has called me out I might as well, I have a Macintosh and I am using Attitude 2.11 N and sometimes I notice there is additional latency and seems to be a problem with firmware in the chip. I went over to Ops and I said can I have an SSID without .11n, they said, yeah, we will try and configure it tomorrow. And they came over and said actually, can't do it so I was a bit miffed. It wasn't really a constructive comment but I thought you might be interested.

SHANE KERR: Thank you for leaving us on a sour note, David. Do you guys want to say anything about it?


SHANE KERR: Okay. Thank you very much, I think these end presentations are always quite interesting for everyone.

GERT DORING: Something I noticed and had some issues with but since everybody seemed to be happy, supposedly it's a local problem; the bend steering of the Wi?Fi seems to be a bit aggressive so I was keeping track of my log files, what my laptop was doing and it was sometimes bumping me to different access points every two or three minutes, which on Linux leads to a full DHCP cycle so I was losing my peer address for a couple of seconds, which definitely interfered with me trying to get work done, so if the aggressiveness of the band steering could be tuned down a bit, that would be good.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: Yes, I was just going to say that we have seen problems with band steering with ? and specifically versions lower than one that don't really have issues which is why at that meeting we set up the two new SSID, one five gig only and one, 2.4, so if people are having issues we would recommend using the 5 gig network. And we can look at a tuning deband steering as well.

GERT DORING: Which actually not all hardware supports, I am one of these poor guys who had to take what they got and the laptop only has 2.4. So laugh at me but that is what I have to keep up with.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: We also have a 2.4 only network as well.

SHANE KERR: Gentlemen, I am going to have it cut you off here, I am sure we are all fascinating but we can discuss it after. This ends the portion of the meeting that has been organised by the Programme Committee so thank you very much, and now we pass it over to the chairman of RIPE.


ROB BLOKZIJL: Who starts by, I think you pre?empted me, I wanted to say on behalf of all of you Programme Committee, thank you very much. We have a few tokens of our appreciation, so I would like to ask Filiz, as the Chair, and all the members present here to come up, follow me. There is still quite a few of you around.


Thank you all very much, Programme Committee. There are a couple of things which we have to take care of, some of them are RIPE business and I want to go back to our Working Group sessions which we had. There are two items that came out of this week's Working Group sessions, there is a proposal to start a new Working Group and I would like to ask either Andrea or Martin to come and you have 30 seconds because I think we have dealt with it basically at the last RIPE meeting, we had a presentation at the closing plenary proposing the creation of new Working Group dedicated on OpenSource projects and we advised the two initiators to organise a BoF as if it were a Working Group session this week, and based on the results of that come with their conclusions. Yesterday afternoon, that session took place and I hand over the microphone to Ondrej and give us the results.

ONDREJ FILIP: I didn't prepare the slides, but since we don't have time for it I will very quickly run through yesterday's session. So it was from 4:00 to almost five minutes to six so we a little bit run late and good news was that we had more than 100 people in the room and all majority of them stayed up to the end if it was run quite late, so it was positive. We prepared our usual mix of presentations and panel discussion, and I must say the session was very, very interactive, many people stayed in the queues close to the mics and wanted to express something and something very positive to me there were not just the usual suspects as we all know them ?? where is Ruediger? ?? but a lot of new faces which I didn't know and new ideas so it was very positive and, yeah, that is probably all.

ROB BLOKZIJL: I can confirm that I was there, so the proposal is to create a new Working Group dedicated to OpenSource software. For those of you who will relatively new in this RIPE environment, the way we create Working Groups is to ask the plenary session, which is today, to confirm or to object. So, are there any objections? Show of hands who think it's a good idea or applause. Okay.

AUDIENCE SPEAKER: That was shorthand for in favour or opposed. I heard both questions at once and only saw one show of hands.

ROB BLOKZIJL: I asked for objections and there were none and I asked for confirmation of yes. Yes. Okay, the usual administrative stuff you will take up with the RIPE NCC. Another item concerning Working Groups, Niall O'Reilly, are you still here?

NIALL O'REILLY: No, I have gone home.

ROB BLOKZIJL: Okay. This man has gone home and so has his Working Group.

NIALL O'REILLY: I think my co?chair should probably stand up as well so you know which two of us will be looking after the ENUM group while it remains dormant. We will keep the mailing list going and with proposals, approach the Working Groups for agenda space and see how that goes. That is it, I think.

ROB BLOKZIJL: As a physicist, I learned many, many years ago, too many years ago, that there are conservation laws in the universe of energy, I think we have conservation of number of Working Groups in RIPE. Right.

I think I have a couple of slides to summarise this meeting ?? oh, there we are. Numbers of participants: Well, you see the trend of the last four meetings. Slightly going up ?? well, no, constant. But now we had 523 attendees, that is one more than half an hour ago when I went through the slides. So somebody just checked in half an hour ago.


This has been the largest RIPE meeting ever. I cannot say that it's probably triggered by the beautiful weather in Dublin, so it must be the fascinating programme and work which we are doing, and that is you, thank you.

We had 155 newcomers and so that was 35% of the total crowd here today.

We are, of course, always interested in what did you think, and especially people who call me for the first time, they are less indoctrinated in this respect than you who come for many years. Have a look at the feedback form on the website and please, please, take a couple of minutes and give us your feedback. That helps us in organising meetings, getting rid of things which you think went wrong. To encourage you, you will be entered into a prize draw to win one of the two Amazon gift vouchers.

Where were you coming from? You were coming from 53 countries. You can have a look later on the website if you want to know more specifics.

Numbers are always funny if you start reading them. There were as many Brits as Irish at this meeting. No conclusions. And as usual, in our European meeting the largest team was from the US.

Where did you come from organisational?wise? Those of you who were on Monday morning at the introduction presentations for newcomers, so a slide where I ?? saw a slide where I explained how we started and that was 100% academic and research, education, orientated organisations. Today, the Internet is a commodity so half of you indicated that your type of organisation is commercial association ?? organisation, and here you can see the breakdown of the rest, as well.

The RIPE NCC conducts a survey among members and the wider group of stakeholders, the Internet community. We do this every two years, roughly, I think. And we are about to start a new one. There is a URL here and so this is the survey not for the meeting but for the whole operation and organisation of the RIPE NCC.

SERGE RADOVCIC: I just wanted to mention earlier in the week we said he would be giving away five iPads to those that are filling in the survey, one every week. We made a little change to that, we decided to encourage all of you in the room to get going, you have got a chance to be the very first participants, is that we will give the first iPad away to people that fill in the survey before Monday when we officially announce it to the rest of the community so you will be a step ahead of them because you made the effort to come here, obviously there are people watching this on webcast will be invited to do the same.

So if you fill it in early you should realise that you will ?? even though ?? even if you don't get the iPad the first time, by the second week those people that were in early will have another chance and third week, a third chance and so on. The earlier you fill it in, the more chances you will have a chance of winning an iPad if that is what it takes to entice you. The rest of you I am sure want to give us your feedback. Thank you.

ROB BLOKZIJL: Thank you. These meetings cannot be organised without the participation of sponsors, so before going through the whole list, I want to make a special ?? express our special gratitude to our local host, HEAnet, and I would like to ask Brian to come forward and receive on behalf of all of us a token of our appreciation. Brian, HEAnet, I think it was brilliant.

Our Co. host and Co. organiser, INEX, I would like to invite Nick Hilliard and Eileen Gallagher to come forward.

Well, we are in the good mood, our sponsors as you can see here, we have seen them for the whole week, they have been sponsoring various parts of the programme, like coffee breaks, like part of the dinner last night and I think, on behalf of all of you, thank you all, your sponsors.

The ?? mentioning coffee breaks, some of you who like your coffee nice and strong may have noticed that it was a strong coffee area, which went with the prize draw which I think we are doing now. As you can see, it is completely open and transparent.

SPEAKER: I am from France?IX, Internet Exchange in Paris and Marseilles, I would like to thank RIPE for this great event, we were happy to be one of the sponsors and we were coffee sponsor so we had a little prize for to you win which is an espresso coffee machine, for those who participated, we will know who is the winner. So maybe Sandra will pick because she has an innocent hand.

SPEAKER: So, the winner is Mehmet Ali Oksuz. So he will receive the coffee machine within two weeks at home. Thanks a lot.

ROB BLOKZIJL: Thank you. So, the next RIPE meeting, as you all know, will be in Athens, and in October, later this year. While we are in the thank you very much mode, I think I can speak on behalf of all of you again when I say the RIPE NCC conference coordinators have done an excellent job again, and specifically I want to mention Sandra and Gergana, you may know Sandra for quite some years. Gergana is a new member on the team and come on stage. Come on stage, please. For those of you who have been wondering...

This was an unbiased participant. Thank you both very much and I know it's not just the two of you; you are the Speer heads of a large team, so you and the team, thank you very much for a job extremely well done. Thank you.

I am going through my notes. Oh, yes, I almost forgot we have the early bird registrations. For those of you who are new, as soon as the RIPE NCC announces and opens the registration website for the RIPE meeting, it pays to register immediately because the first three registered and who are present now in the room, will get a little prize. And this time it is Sergey Myasoedov, Wolfgang Tremmel. And Raymond Jetten.

So next time, register as soon as possible and you have to stay until the end of the meeting.

Last but not least, just as we started this thank you session with thanking the Programme Committee, I think it's extremely appropriate also to thank all the Working Group Chairs because as the Programme Committee took part ?? took charge of the first part of the week, the Working Group Chairs organised the second part of the week, so all the Working Groups and Working Group Chairs, thank you very much.

Now, this brings us almost to the end of ?? oh wait, wait wait, a very last minute policy proposal has come in and I know you are all tired and hungry, but we have to deal with this in our open, transparent self organising and, Olaf may remind me if I missed some other ?? open transfer ??

OLAF KOLKMAN: Cooperation ??

ROB BLOKZIJL: Cooperation is very good.

OLAF KOLKMAN: Collaboration.

ROB BLOKZIJL: Remco, can you introduce the policy proposal, and then we have done all the serious work, I think.

Remco: I think so. So, I am sorry to keep you all away from lunch and coffee and planes, but I don't know if I can actually get away with this. We will see. So, enough already, it's a proposal to disband the secret Working Group. And I mean, usually I do a pretty short presentation about policy proposals, because I do too many of them. So the proposal is the RIPE community disbands the Secret Working Group and thanks the Working Group Chair for his activities. Why? The rationale.

(Secret Working Group)...


Doyle Court Reporters have got a machine

Doyle reporters have got a machine

And their typists are terribly keen.
They type in one word and a whole phrase emerge

"Well, ok... but of course... what I mean".